Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome back to that's Delivered, where we highlight stories of people and the innovation shaping the trucking industry. I'm your host, ray, and today we're excited to have an episode that focuses on the topic that impacts every driver on the road, and that's drug testing. For truck drivers out there, it's not just about compliance, it's also about safety, professionalism and maintaining trust on the highways that we share professionalism and maintaining trust on the highways that we share. Today, I'm joined with Judy Parska, owner of fastest laps location here in Minnesota, and Judy has built a career helping employers and employees navigate the complexities of drug testing, and their expertise in this area is invaluable. Together, we'll unpack how drug testing affects truck drivers and the challenges of staying compliant with the ever-changing regulations and the broader implications of substance use in the industry. Judy, welcome to the show. Welcome to that's Delivered.

Speaker 2: 0:58

Thanks, ray, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1: 1:00

How's your day going?

Speaker 2: 1:02

Good, Trying to get a lot of stuff done on Saturday. You know Saturday's catch-up day.

Speaker 1: 1:06

Catch-up day. Yep, and you're a busy lady.

Speaker 2: 1:09

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:10

And I hear a lot of great things about you on LinkedIn. Man, that's nice, thank you.

Speaker 1: 1:15

So, yeah, what I typically do is just keep it relaxed, easygoing. I don't try to make it too strange. I want it to be nice and relaxed and have fun and just be yourself. You know, that's that's. That's the great part about the podcast. Really happy to have you here. Um, just wanted to kind of get uh, you know a little bit about your background. Tell folks, hey, who, who is judy and what is she doing. You know doing all the testing, you know. So tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey. What drew you to opening Fastest Labs locations and what keeps you passionate about your work.

Speaker 2: 1:52

Certainly. Well, this is my third career. I first started out with the high school math and computer teacher. So my last year of teaching I was in a car accident. I said you know, do I really want to teach math the rest of my life? And so I said what I really love? I love sports. So I went back and got myself a master's in sports administration, spent the next 20 years in sports administration and then after 20 years the current company I was with said they want to go in a different direction, which was fine by me. I was tired and burnt out. So then I took a year to kind of network and figure out what I want to do for the third time around my career.

Speaker 2: 2:23

And at the end of that year I met a friend who was a franchise broker and so we started looking at franchises and he showed me some different ones. Like he showed me a coffee shop, because I'd spent a year in coffee shops and Decalash and a flower tent, and then it came to Fastest Labs and I go, tell me more. I said I like things that go fast and and I said, how hard can this be? And he goes will you be buying the first one for the state of Minnesota. I go all right, no big deal. And so, um, fast forward. Um, that was in November of 2018. And then, um, I signed in March of 2019. And then, june, I opened the door for my first one, june 19th, june, 10th of 2019. So yeah, quite the journey to get the first one open.

Speaker 1: 3:04

Yes, yeah, it was man. That's that lets people know too, that you know you never really know what you're going to end up doing. You just got to kind of be open to it.

Speaker 2: 3:14

So I mean Exactly Things happen for a reason.

Speaker 1: 3:18

That's right, and you know your background with teaching. How did that blend over?

Speaker 2: 3:23

I mean, I think you mentioned that before how teaching does help with a lot of the individuals that you come in contact with, being open to them. I mean, what would you say on that? One understand how our our process works or how drugs work, because people are very naive to like, oh, I can just do that, it won't hurt anything. I'm like, no, that's not a good thing. So just really educating people in a very kind and gentle way like that.

Speaker 1: 3:54

I really do that. That's that does resonate. You know we need a lot more of that in the world, so that that's good Right. Um so uh, reading about your transition to franchising after working in other fields, was there a definite moment that you realized that was the right path? Um, where you're at right now, or is there like a moment you remember that you?

Speaker 2: 4:16

that hit you. Once I said I was going to switch and go buy a franchise, I went all in. I never looked back. I said you know what, I'm going to go do it. And it was freeing to know that I was just going to go do it. I didn't have to worry about what other job I was going to do. And that was kind of fun, because once you go, I'm going to do this, you're in, you're all in and I put everything in. I've put everything into the last five and a half years of doing this.

Speaker 1: 4:38

So drug testing. And let's dive into the drug testing. You know how it connects specifically to trucking industry. That's the area that we like to hone in. I'm sure there's a lot of drug testing for other industries, but for CDL holders that are passing a drug test and make it a break in moments in in their career, what makes it so critical for truck drivers?

Speaker 2: 5:06

Truck drivers are driving those big rigs. I mean, it's a safety issue and I think it's important that any truck driver understands the rules and regulations behind it. Because we have so many people that come in our office that are new, just starting CDL school, and they're like, yeah, I'm going to take a drug test. I'm like, okay, do you know what they're testing for? They're like, yeah, I'm going to take a drug test. I'm like, okay, do you know what they're testing for? They're like no, I'm clean. I go that's what everybody says. Until they understand. With the new marijuana, people just think you can use it.

Speaker 1: 5:35

So again, understanding the rules and regulations behind a CDL driver is very imperative, and so you know there's a big gap there. I guess People just in your experience, what's the most common thing you know? Just marijuana, or what's some of the trends that you noticed in the recent years?

Speaker 2: 5:50

The biggest one I would say right now is marijuana, because in Minnesota it had been legalized a year ago. So people go, it's legal, I can use it. I go. No, you are federally regulated as a CDL driver, you can't use. So that's been the issue. And they're like well, it's in gummies, you know. It's in food, it's in brownies, Sometimes it's wherever some people use it to take go to sleep, Sometimes it's like creams. So again, people and they go well, it doesn't say anything on the label, I go. Just because it's not on the label it doesn't mean that it's not in there and we've had people test positive because of that. I say if you see anything has thc or marijuana, don't use it. Cbd, don't use it oh man.

Speaker 2: 6:27

So, man, it's because like a cbd advertises like it's safe, and you know that's issues right but we had we had a driver who was a cdl driver, who had a sore shoulder and his wife gave him this lovely cream. She goes try this cream, this cream, it's really good. You know, he didn't ask what was in it. Two weeks later he gets pulled for a random. He tests positive. So then he has to go through the whole return to duty process. And it was for marijuana, it was in the cream. He said oh my gosh, I didn't know. And that's the biggest thing. Truck drivers say I didn't know. So that's where I try to talk to truck companies and let them know here or anybody that's a CDL driver, don't use any of those just because it's not regulated. That's the biggest key. All those CBD products, they're not regulated. And I talked to a lady who actually sold those and she goes oh, they're all good. I go, no. So that's the part that's misleading.

Speaker 1: 7:22

How often does that happen? I mean, maybe it's just like once in a while you got to deal with it Just once in a while that we've seen it on our end.

Speaker 2: 7:29

I mean, that's the ones that come to our office, so I don't know about other drivers. I mean you probably meet more drivers than I. Well, I don't know, we may meet the same amount of drivers, but again, just educating them to understand what?

Speaker 1: 7:43

what that means? How can they look out for it? I mean because they still want to use CBD. Do you have any tips for them?

Speaker 2: 7:49

My best thing would say is don't use CBD. I wouldn't unless you know somebody has truly tested that product and made sure that it's not in there, because it's your livelihood that you could lose if you test positive. What you'd have to do is go through the return of duty process, and I know it's important to talk about a little later I. What you have to do is go through the return of duty process, and I know it's important to talk about a little later. I mean, that's not a friendly process to have to go through. It's a pain in the butt.

Speaker 1: 8:08

Yeah, man, wow Disappointed when they're hearing that, you know, because they probably think they got it under control. So yeah, federal regulations are always changing. There's challenges with that, for CDL holders require a routine drug testing, but state laws, especially with marijuana legalizing, can complicate things. Can you explain how this affects drivers who live in states where marijuana is legal but they're still subject to federal DOT rules? Maybe just kind of enlighten them on those gray areas?

Speaker 2: 8:44

Well, it's actually, it's not. Gray Thing is you're federally regulated, so no use period. That's the easiest way to tell people. Just don't use no marijuana, no marijuana products, no more drinks, nothing, cause you don't know if you'll get pulled for a random cause. It's better, and marijuana stays in your system up to 45 days. That's the other fun job about marijuana. Marijuana really stays in your fat cells so, depending on how your body processes it, it can stay in there longer, and so that's the key to people. They're like oh, I'll just take it today, I'll be good on Monday. No, so yeah, I know it's not positive news, but people need to hear this. They need a truck driver. You need to understand. Don't use any of those products.

Speaker 1: 9:27

I got a responsibility. You know that's something you got to take serious. It's your livelihood, like you said. You know things can change real quick with a mistake. So what are some of the biggest challenges trucking companies face when implementing drug testing policies for their fleets? On the other side for the employer.

Speaker 2: 9:49

What would you say? I think, on the employer side, again, understanding how the rules work, knowing that you can go to like they come to Fastest Labs for us, we can help them small to medium-sized truck companies, but they're big ones and then, like, if they get, just so they educate those drivers what that means. What is the drug policy, what's the alcohol policy? And it's random how they get pulled.

Speaker 2: 10:08

You need to have a pre-employment If you're gone for more than 30 days. You need to have another pre-employment to get back in and make sure that you're clean. Like, say, you took a vacation, you're gone for 60 days. You need to have a pre-employment to get back in to their pool or whatever. Again, it truly is education and that's the biggest thing I can tell employers Educate your drivers first on the rules and secondly, tell them what's going to happen. Like you're going to come in for a drug test so you're going to have to urinate in a cup or you have to do a breath alcohol test and I know there's rules coming that there could be oral testing coming. That's coming down the road.

Speaker 1: 10:46

So that's going to be another option for drug testing. How soon is that? Do you think that may be? What's your prediction?

Speaker 2: 10:50

Well, it was supposed to be in the works since before COVID and then COVID came, so that got put in the back burner. It's been approved, but they need two labs approved and again. But the thing with oral testing is and we've had somebody, we've done some oral testing in our office. My sister was taking care of an oral test. I took care of urine tests. I did three tests in the amount of time she did an oral.

Speaker 2: 11:12

So oral, if you're a smoker, you have a dry mouth. You can't smoke, eat or drink before you have an oral tester. And people can usually urinate quite easily, right, something we just all have to go do so. And people can usually urinate quite easily, right, something we just all have to go do. So it's easier. On a urine test, the oral one, like for us, it would come in handy for, like, if you have something that's out of temperature, it triggers an observed test. In the DOT world, we could switch it to an oral test, which would help us out because we don't have a male on staff that makes any sense.

Speaker 1: 11:41

You have a fear of urinating. What about some people do that and they end up getting refusal because they took too long?

Speaker 2: 11:49

when you get up to three hours. So that's the dot rule and you know and I've been doing this five and a half years I have never seen a person not be able to urinate three hours because they get up to 40 ounces of water. That's all they can. So we give them four, 10 ounce glasses of water, we measure it and in three hours three hours, I mean, half of it's mental, I'll just you probably know this Half of you just freak out because you're taking a test and so and we have a water fountain in our office so they can sit and listen to the shrinkly noise help them to hopefully go to the bathroom and then in three hours people can get it done.

Speaker 2: 12:19

I've never not going to, I have never seen anybody, because if they can't, then they have to go to the doctor and get figured out why they can't urinate in three hours. So now again, not a fun process. That would count as refusing to go to a doctor and get that checked out. So just an FYI to drivers make sure you come to a testing facility prepared so you can give a sample.

Speaker 1: 12:40

How do you come prepared? You're not tipped off, are you? Say again Are you supposed to get tipped off that you're going to be drug tested, or is that okay when they say hey?

Speaker 2: 12:55

Well, if you get pulled for a random, okay, obviously you're going to be driving to that facility. You kind of figured out what you're probably going there for, so drink water or liquids or coffee, whatever you need to do. So a lot of the randoms are supposed to be just pulled like you're going to get pulled right and then within minutes you should be headed out to that facility. You'll get your drug test done. You know it's. It's not supposed to be. You're not supposed to have days notice, because then you could try to adulterate your test.

Speaker 1: 13:20

Right Hours, not days.

Speaker 2: 13:24

Correct, that is correct.

Speaker 1: 13:26

Yes, yes, All right, man, you know it's what a process. That was a lot to learn, and when you got into all this.

Speaker 2: 13:39

I mean you run it off so well like, trust me, when I first started I didn't know this. It took a while to figure this out and to educate people and drivers. Like when you do a drug test you come in for a drug test, we have people empty their pockets, take their jacket off and everything's locked up and the DOT people. They wash their hands before they take a test. That's what should be happening for any of your drivers that are taking the test. This is what should happen. You should wash your hands before your drug test should happen. You should wash your hands before your drug test.

Speaker 2: 14:05

We give you the cup you have. It's a time test. You go in there for three minutes, you come back out Hopefully you've provided enough and then we label everything up and you should stay with us until that specimen and that chain of custody is in a bag and sealed. And I've talked to some drivers where they say that the people at the site just say you're done. I'm like no, you need to stay right there, and so they don't mix it up with somebody else's.

Speaker 1: 14:25

Yeah, or you know someone told me that they went in the bathroom where it was two people that were brought into the bathroom and some kind of way it got mixed up.

Speaker 2: 14:41

Yeah, not good.

Speaker 1: 14:43

Different story. I was like huh yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:49

So again, stay with your specimen till that bag is sealed and all my new ones that are with a new. Like our cdl company or as a school, we tell all the new drivers so when you take a drug test, here's what you need to do and make sure you stay. And one guy who'd been driving for a while had come back and he goes. Well, they told us, no, you need to go. And he sure you stay. And one guy who had been driving for a while had come back and he goes. Well, they told us, no, you need to go, and he goes. Then they got mad at us and I'm like no, I said that's your specimen and you say, no, per the DOT rules, I need to stay here. So it's important because you want anything mixed up. I mean, I don't want anybody getting dinged when they're not supposed to be dinged. I want them to be safe. So that's truly important.

Speaker 1: 15:24

But enlighten me, why would someone kind of rush that process? Is it because they're trying to get those tests done? I mean, just be open-minded.

Speaker 2: 15:32

I'm thinking either they just didn't want them standing there like you get out of here and you're done, but again, the rule is the rule and I think it's imperative you follow the rule Because, again, it's all in. People know like they want to come to Fast Slab because they know it's fast and they know we get it done and we know we do it right and they go. Well, we go other places and it's not right and I said well, I want to educate you so you know what the rule is. So, in case you go someplace else, you know the rule Right. And I want, I want, I want the drivers to know that we care, I mean that's truly it nice.

Speaker 1: 16:03

Yeah, I like that. It's a great mission model to live by or to do business by, so right exactly yeah, you more. So want to help people keep their job, not take them out of their job.

Speaker 2: 16:14

So right and we have people that'll come back to us who have um a violation and have to go through that return of duty process. I know we'll talk about later, but again it's a kind of gentle process because they have a violation and you know we all make mistakes. That's how we learn is from a mistake. So we try to be kind on that process as well.

Speaker 1: 16:32

How much? How much training does the tester? Is that what we call them? The tester, the collector, Collector how much training do they go through?

Speaker 2: 16:43

So get trained. So we have um things that we have to do through corporate, that they help us get trained on how to do the collection and then the other pieces, like all of the how to set up companies as dut companies, that stuff that you learn further once you know what you're doing as a collector. So yeah, there's. It takes hours and hours and to get trained and then you keep keep your certification up every five years if you get renewed as well.

Speaker 1: 17:07

Every five. Wow, yeah, man, that's that's, that's important, that's good, Nice. So, supporting drivers through the process, you know you mentioned a few already how you've, you know, seen some people fail their drug tests. Those situations can be devastating. Can you walk us through the return of duty process and what it looks like? Or you know for people that don't know, never did it before?

Speaker 2: 17:36

Right. So if you have a violation so say marijuana, whatever, whatever the drug is, you have a violation. What'll happen is the company will tell you you have to go through the SAP program. So it's a substance abuse professional program. You'll get assigned to the substance abuse professional. You'll have to take classes online. They'll go through and figure out, you know, do you have a? Do you truly have an issue? Are you addicted to whatever drug this is? And it'll take a little bit. Sometimes it can take weeks or months to get through the classes.

Speaker 2: 18:04

Again, you can't work during this time, so again, no income coming in. So it's important that you get this done as quickly as you can. And then when the SAP professional thinks that you are good to go, think that you will pass a drug test, then you have to go back and get what we would call it's a DOT lookalike drug test. So you get a DUT drug test that's similar to a DUT but it's lookalike, so it doesn't show up in the clearinghouse. And once that's negative, then the SAP would tell you okay, now you can go back and do your first return to duty. So your return to duty drug test is an observed test. And this is where people who've never had to do this. They're like it seems a little invasive. So you return to duty.

Speaker 2: 18:43

Test is again. You have jelly pockets. You go in the bathroom to somebody that's the same gender as you, you lift your shirt up to your chest, you drop your drawers and your underwear to your knees and you spin around and make sure that the observer makes sure nothing's attached and then you adjust everything and then you urinate into the top. That's the return to duty. Yeah, it's not, as you can tell, not a fun. I saw your face. It is not a fun job for male or female, it doesn't matter your sex. It's very uncomfortable. People in the military, like we did. We've done this before. Everybody watches us go and I'm like that's fine, but I said when you're not used to that, it's not fun. I mean, you think about it. You go in the bathroom. You don't want's staring at you.

Speaker 1: 19:21

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:22

Right. So that's the first one. It's called the return to duty, and then there's a series of follow-ups and there's so many that have to be done and there's a schedule the SAP professional puts out there Like there's so many that have to be done in the first year, so we have to be done in the second year, and so we have to get on the third year, most of the time to five years. So it is a process, to say the least, and every time those tests, the first one is return to duty, all the rest of them are called follow-up.

Speaker 1: 19:52

They're all observed, and so this all could happen because of poppy seeds.

Speaker 2: 19:57

Poppy seeds. I mean you have to eat a lot of those. I had a guy come up to me. He goes well, I know, but I have to eat two poppy seed bagels before I would test positive. I'm like and he wasn't a truck driver, I'm like, dude, if you have that much time on your hands, way too much time on your hands. Do you have any poppy seeds? Most people, the few poppy seeds you have is not going to make you test positive unless you eat a ton of them. So you should be fine there that is not it that's not the case.

Speaker 2: 20:28

Yeah, all right, wow, so that's quite the process it is.

Speaker 1: 20:29

Is it like that for pilots?

Speaker 2: 20:32

you know, um, that's the dut rule. And again, anybody that's in the federally regulated industry, um, pilots, fta, faa, all those same process, they all have to be observed. So anything that's out of temp or it's a positive causes that to happen. So even like we actually had one yesterday, somebody gave us an out of temp specimen, as the DOT driver and the gentleman did not want to stay. So in the DOT world, if somebody refuses to say it's a refusal and they walked out the door, that goes on your record. And now you have to do the return to duty process because you refused.

Speaker 1: 21:07

And what happens if you don't? So how for you guys? Yeah, that happens. I know it's weird and all the guys what happens when they walk out for you guys, tell me about that. You guys got to report it right away.

Speaker 2: 21:19

We do. We have to call the DER, the designated employer representative, and let them know that Ray walked out of his drug test. He gave us a hot one and he walked out and he refused.

Speaker 1: 21:30

What happens then? They just hang up. Well, sometimes they'll just quit, They'll stop being a CDL driver, other ones will go back and they say, hey, oh, yeah, and they'll have to go through the SAP, SAP program. Well, I mean, do they reach out to the employer and all kinds of stuff? When that, when you report it?

Speaker 2: 21:49

So we reach out to the employer, but I'm not sure what that employer does from that end and sometimes, most of the time, that person who refused will end up quitting. That's typically what happens.

Speaker 2: 21:58

Oh, there's not an agency that you contact, you just go right to the employer yep, that's our main direct contact in is the employer yep, missed that. All right, cool, wow, yeah, that's yeah, in your career what is? And I actually had one that was an after hours. So we called out for after hours. So some gentlemen, one company said we're going to send you a dot driver, right, and they told me where they're driving from and I and I make that, and I said so they're about 45 minutes. I'm like, oh yeah, they'll be there.

Speaker 2: 22:29

And then he calls. He said I won't be there to eight o'clock and I'm like, so when they start pushing things out, you know something's going on. And then he was late again, late again and be observed. And he did it. And then we're sitting there waiting for him to go. The second time he said, um, well, if I did a little marijuana, is that going to show up in the test? At first he said it was somebody in the car with him and I go well, if you're sitting in the car with somebody, it's not going to make you test positive.

Speaker 1: 22:58

But if you actually did it yeah, that's a good question because you go to a concert.

Speaker 2: 23:03

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Speaker 1: 23:05

Whoa, uh-huh.

Speaker 2: 23:09

Tickets. Yeah, In the concert, if they're doing a hair test that could show up. I mean it'd have to be a lot of exposure, because some trucking companies do hair testing and if you take a drug, that does show up in your hair later on.

Speaker 1: 23:19

Yeah, I mentioned that on my show one time. People were like, hey, what's with the hair testing, what's that all about? Because people were like, man, you could go back a long ways on the hair testing.

Speaker 2: 23:31

Well, typically they would go back 90 days. Every half inch is 30 days, so, again, they typically wouldn't go any further than that. Typically, as the DOT companies Not many of them do hair testing. There's a few that do it, some of them, some big ones, do it.

Speaker 1: 23:45

How big, how big is this?

Speaker 2: 23:46

big ones, I mean like the big trucking companies some of those do it and I you know you want to make sure your drivers are safe or something like that, cause they say they're tough to get into Walmart. Interesting. I did not going to do that. No, I'm gonna try to keep that generic.

Speaker 1: 24:08

All right, cool, I was taking a guess. I was hoping it might be right with the Walmart, but all right, cause they're they're big on safety. That's good job, yeah, and their drivers are priority, making sure that they're safe on the road.

Speaker 2: 24:24

And that's good. I mean, I think people when they're drivers they want to find those companies that actually are following the rules and not just a fly-by-night company. Because I've had drivers come in and I said I worked in California for three weeks, I didn't get paid, I'm switching to a new company. I'm like seriously, so it's interesting stories you hear from DOT drivers. I mean we like to talk to them, we like to hear their story.

Speaker 1: 24:48

How long?

Speaker 2: 24:48

did they go without payment? This gentleman he's been in California for three weeks and hadn't got paid by the company he was with.

Speaker 1: 24:53

Oh, three weeks Okay.

Speaker 2: 24:54

Yep. And so he said you know what? I'm going to switch to a new company. This company is going to pay me. I'm like, wow, that's horrible. Yeah, yeah that does happen. You do know that. Okay, yeah, sure, you do.

Speaker 1: 25:06

It is a thing I'm not sure. That's why unions exist, cause that a fair day's wage for a fair, fair day's pay, make sure you get all that stuff. But people are like, oh, I don't like unions, but that's cause of those bad stories on the other side. Right Right, wow, so the CBD thing is unions, but that's because of those bad stories on the other side, right right, wow, uh. So the cbd thing is just, it's just a no-go. We, we covered the concerts. Um, just being around people, you won't.

Speaker 2: 25:36

You're thinking if, if you're just around people, that you shouldn't have a problem with as long as I'm not doing a hair test, I would think you should be fine you would think yeah, that's still.

Speaker 1: 25:45

You would think yeah. That's still not a guarantee, though.

Speaker 2: 25:48

That's true, good company.

Speaker 1: 25:52

Yeah, the concert one always kind of worried me because I have been in a concert and I'm like, ah, this, this is, I could probably test positive after this. It's so much marijuana.

Speaker 2: 26:05

Yeah, yeah, it's kind of nuts you would know yeah, typically no typically no.

Speaker 1: 26:10

All right, I like that. Some good news here there you go.

Speaker 2: 26:15

There's a positive for the morning yeah, all right.

Speaker 1: 26:18

So, um, so the impact on substance use, uh, the trends you mentioned a lot with marijuana is huge. What was big before that? Anything that was, maybe past history.

Speaker 2: 26:32

You know, in my time I would say the next big thing was probably cocaine. Because I see some people pop for cocaine here and there Because people still like to use that one and I'm like, wow, I thought that was an older drug. I tell you there's a lot of people that use cocaine that aren't drivers, that we see. But cocaine goes in and out of your system really quick, Like it's in and out of your system in one to four days, but it can stay a little bit longer than others in weeks.

Speaker 1: 26:56

Still rolling the dice again. Correct, they party hard on vacation, so you just got to do that in the front of the vacation.

Speaker 2: 27:05

If at all.

Speaker 1: 27:07

I recommend anything.

Speaker 2: 27:08

Not recommended? Yes, and I know you had to ask another question Medical marijuana cards. That's probably another question that people think oh, I have a medical marijuana card, I can drive a truck. I said no, you can't. With a medical marijuana card you cannot be a CDL driver.

Speaker 1: 27:25

Just make sure we have that cleared up so nobody tries that one. So these are people that have their CDL asking these questions.

Speaker 2: 27:29

No, there's somebody. I'm just saying, if there's somebody listening, that goes. Maybe I want to be a truck driver and they have a medical marijuana card, they go. Hey, I could be a driver.

Speaker 1: 27:37

No, no, no, yeah All right Just making sure. What is it? A drug crisis? Opiates? Opiates yeah, what about those prescription pills, adderall, all that stuff? That's a difficult question to do, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 28:08

no-transcript. If you're on a prescription, they will call you and say, hey, ray, do you have a prescription for Adderall? They will verify your prescription. You're just going to say, yep, I have a prescription they're not going to. You're just gonna say, yep, I have a prescription, they're not going to go with that. They're going to look at it and make sure it's the right amount that would cause you to test positive for opioids and then they verify it out as a negative. Now I have seen some drivers that are on some other medications that actually was too high for them to be a driver and they the medical officer, said I, it is a negative, but the driver should not drive until they're done with this prescription. So the DOT world, I mean they're very good sticklers and it's good because they're driving buses, semis, all that good stuff where you want them to be safe.

Speaker 1: 28:56

Yeah, that's. The last thing you want is someone's life because someone didn't take these rules or regulations serious.

Speaker 2: 29:05

Right, exactly.

Speaker 1: 29:06

Yeah, that makes sense. You know, prescription drugs orpiates. What if someone's taking a prescription and then they also want to do something recreational? Could they lose their prescription? So you're, could they lose their prescription?

Speaker 2: 29:27

so you're saying they have a prescription, say, for adderall yeah, or something like that and then they're trying to use something else, like marijuana, on the side mix those two together.

Speaker 1: 29:37

What about those situations?

Speaker 2: 29:39

it's funny to say that because we have some substance abuse places that um that if they're going to put them on marijuana, you can't be on adderall and not cdl drivers but just people in general. You can't be on adderall and marijuana. So they have to come and get a marijuana test with make sure they're clean before they can go on adderall. There's some kind of connection between those two drugs that they don't like. I'm using them and I'm not a scientist, so I don't know the piece of it, but just halfway yeah, I've heard about that too and I was like I didn't know that I don't like, uh, shrooms yeah, stay away from that stuff.

Speaker 2: 30:12

Holy schmoly that's another whole can of worms that's not on.

Speaker 1: 30:17

It's not on the test.

Speaker 2: 30:18

They're saying right, it is not. But you know when they say the stat is, one in five drivers drive high. Someone told me that One in five.

Speaker 1: 30:27

You got a lot of good information. I'm trying to pull it out of you. One in five.

Speaker 2: 30:32

Which is nuts to me. I mean, okay, I'm driving my car down the road and I see five semis One of them probably, is high and I'm like that's really a scary fact. And you know, and hopefully all your drivers listening, aren't using you know, because we want to keep people safe or even just texting when they're driving. That's another whole issue, and most people have their headsets and they're good about that, so but yeah, one in five supposedly drive high.

Speaker 1: 30:53

I'm like that's a bad stat yeah, I mean, it's just a crazy stigma because, uh, there is a huge amount of people that say, well, when I'm off the clock, that should be my business, and what's your take on that for for them? Or what would you say to them?

Speaker 2: 31:13

well, if you're a CDL driver, when you're off the clock, that doesn't mean you should use any drugs. She's nothing that's gonna be impairing you as a driver because it could show up in your urine, right? Is that what you're asking?

Speaker 1: 31:26

isn't it also that we're held to a higher standard? So what other people would blow or piss hot? They're not held to the same standard, even off the clock that is correct.

Speaker 2: 31:40

You are absolutely right. Right, basically, you're a zero tolerance, you can't do any of that stuff.

Speaker 1: 31:46

Yeah, minnesota is zero tolerance, Isn't that like a point?

Speaker 2: 31:52

So when you have went the level for marijuana, when if you have a drug test it gets cut off at 50 nanograms and then it confirms that 15 nanograms. So again, even if you're using a little bit of gummies, those could show up. So that's why I say to people don't use. You are held to a higher standard. You're yours, a zero tolerance. You guys police officers, firefighters, all of us you're held to a higher standard.

Speaker 1: 32:16

So somebody could come in and say hey, you know, it was a crazy vacation. I want to get tested before I go on to work. How would that work?

Speaker 2: 32:28

I help people do that. Yes, people come in and they say I was gone. I've been gone to Africa for three months. I had a good time when I was there. I'm like, okay, as long as they tell us all the details, we can help them. That's what I hate when people go, I just need a drug test, I go. Can you tell me a little more? Are you a CDL driver? And I had a lady yesterday. She's trying to get a job that actually isn't in the defense department, defense area and they have a zero tolerance. But she'd taken some marijuana, little juice stuff, and she was worried. So we just we did a, we did a lab based test for her to make sure she's going to be okay. She's not a cdl driver but again, she's held to that higher standard. So when people are like on vacation and have a good time, they would do a dut look-alike drug test there.

Speaker 1: 33:10

There's a lookalike, so let's say it's just numbers that shoot way off the chart. What do you do then? Are you required to report after a certain range on even those tests, or no, they're a DOT lookalike, which is the beauty of it. That's the beauty of it, because they're like, oh, if I do that, they're going to be obligated to say something. Or that are like oh, if I do that, they're going to be obligated to say something, or it's a personal test, a personal test.

Speaker 2: 33:32

And that's when people are like so if they test positive like the first time, say their number's high and I go. Well, if your level is, you know XYZ, then you need to wait to get that pre-employment drug test until you know you're clean. And we had a guy that was very antsy to get his job and my assistant had told him multiple times just wait, wait another. And then he tested positive and then he has to go through the return to duty process. So there's a point where you just got to go. Okay, do I really want to do that, or should I just wait a week and I'll be okay?

Speaker 1: 34:04

Oh, so that's a personal test. That's done. Can you share the pricing? I know it can change it test, that's done. Can you share the pricing?

Speaker 2: 34:09

I know it can change. It can change and it varies, so it's a lab-based test, between seven to 80 bucks for a test.

Speaker 1: 34:16

Because some people go on Amazon and they order these tests, or they go to Walgreens like that.

Speaker 2: 34:23

Oh, and let me tell you a little secret about that. When people do that, that's a rapid test and so it has the same cutoff, but it doesn't have the confirm level of 15. So it can give you a false sense of positive, Like it'll say negative because it was testing at 50. It doesn't confirm at that 15, where that's where the DOT will confirm at. So just because you do a rapid is not the same. It's not, does not equate to a lab based test. So if you want to compare apples to apples, your best to do a lab based test and then it's going to be exactly like what you're going to have done for your pre-employment.

Speaker 1: 34:59

All right, I like it. That's good advice. You know people say, oh, I don't want to spend that money. Well, you pay for what you get.

Speaker 2: 35:22

And also, you know, got to think about well, what's the trade-off? I don't have income coming in. That money looks really small when you compare it to your annual income or your monthly income, your house pay. So yeah. Or do you want to go through that return to duty process where you have to have all those observed tests for three years? I don't know. I think I'd pay 70 bucks to have that test and make sure I'm clean, make sure I'm good to go, Wow, yeah.

Speaker 1: 35:39

All right, um so man, so wow, that's, that's definitely a head scratch. I, you know me, me personally, me personally. I try to stay on the safe way, away from the edge.

Speaker 2: 35:54

That's good.

Speaker 1: 35:55

Because I got places I need to do. I need things I need to get down here. I know that's slowing me up.

Speaker 2: 36:00

And you know what Good night's rest does wonders. Yeah, people are like, well, I needed to sleep and I'm like, well, buy some other natural alternatives rather than marijuana or other drugs.

Speaker 1: 36:10

Well, buy some other natural alternatives rather than marijuana or other drugs To get sleep. That is true. So you know that's another thing people they deal with is sleep issues. So, yeah, that does lead to different things. So, trying to get that rest and the relaxation it's a good topic to you know to understand what people are going through. Yeah, it's a good topic to you know to understand what people are going through. Truck drivers we have a really hard time getting sleep, especially if you're in a cab sharing it with the driver while you sleep. They drive, you know, crazy.

Speaker 2: 36:41

The team drivers. That's a very intriguing. When two guys always come in together, I'm like, are you guys team drivers? That was, it's an interesting concept I love at least you have somebody to talk to, so it helps with the loneliness as you guys had mentioned before, the lonely job.

Speaker 1: 36:56

So you really don't get much interaction because they're I've done it and so they're sleeping while you. So you really actually aren't with someone a whole lot. I mean it. There's times where they can stay up a little bit, but it's not, um, I don't know. They got to be asleep.

Speaker 2: 37:14

They got to sleep while you drive right.

Speaker 1: 37:16

Yeah, so you really are more, you may be actually by yourself a lot more, and then you're rolling on these hours so that people back home don't know when you're actually driving or when you're awake. So it's kind of hard for you to connect with people back home as well. Because if you're doing it on a 10 hour shift, yeah, it's, it's, it's a tough gig. Yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't downplay it, because not everybody's cut out for that.

Speaker 2: 37:48

Right, I agree.

Speaker 1: 37:49

Well, the future of drug testing. Looking ahead, do you think drug testing policies will evolve in the future? With industries like trucking, you know, there's a lot of artificial intelligence that's on the horizon. Are there any trends or anything changes that we can look out for and that you would like to share?

Speaker 2: 38:08

The one that I know about is the oral fluids, and that one is the one that's in the works and it's on its way and again, I think for some companies will use it, some will not. Again, it's just an option. That's the biggest one that I know of. There hasn't been much other talk about any other drug testing policies that I've heard of, and I try to keep up on most of them because I try to help the DOT companies on what's coming up. So, yeah, just the oral fluid one, which would help for some.

Speaker 1: 38:40

Where did it come from Canada, or why did saliva testing kind of increase all of a sudden?

Speaker 2: 38:47

Well, you know, when COVID the oral fluid testing was supposed to happen 2019 and then covid happened, so they put all their time and money into doing covid tests because it was the same type of product material and that's why oral fluid kind of got pushed back it actually got pushed back and okay, I thought it was introduced as something as an option.

Speaker 2: 39:07

Okay yeah, it's coming, it has to. You have to have two labs. So, just like when you have a urine specimen, you have a split sample right. You have an A and a B. So if you ever, if you ever test positive, you can ask to have that bottle B tested. Yeah, you probably don't. People, drivers probably don't know this, so let's let's talk about this for a second. So if you have you test positive on bottle A, because that's the one that gets sent, they both get sent. Bottle B gets sent to another lab. You can request. That Company has to pay for it.

Speaker 2: 39:34

It's an expensive endeavor because it goes to another lab, not the same lab. I mean, if it came out of your body, typically you're going to get the same result, but sometimes people request that in case they think they have been messed up. But so now, with the oral fluid testing, the same option has to be there for DOT. You have to have an A and a B, and that's why they're trying to figure out how to do all that. Yet and that's been the quirk of it, because you do an oral saliva, it's in your mouth. How do you get two specimens out of one? You know it's one thing in your mouth. So that's the other piece of that.

Speaker 1: 40:05

Wow, yeah, I didn't know that when you said that. I'm glad you clarified that, and how would they get that corrected? What do you think would help that process?

Speaker 2: 40:16

Well. So they're working on that, so they're trying to figure out if for an A and B, how to have it as a split. I'm not sure where that's at right now and that's why, with the oral fluids, my thought would be if a company does stays with urine, so say they have an out-of-temp specimen, I would flip it to oral then because you don't have to have it observed. That's going to help people that don't have to be observed. You can do oral, which would ease that process for the return to duty. You could do an oral which would be less, more, not as invasive as the observed test is, and it's also for the transgender binary people who you know they don't know. So that's where another option for them is to have the oral test.

Speaker 1: 40:55

So I also had a question about the breathalyzers and stuff like that. You guys deal with that too.

Speaker 2: 41:00

We do yes.

Speaker 1: 41:03

Can you explain that process why? Why is it?

Speaker 2: 41:05

some people do it and some don't, and like Okay, so for companies, you you have to, for your randoms. For companies, you have to pull 50 of your drivers for urine and 10 of your drivers for breath alcohol. That's the random quantity for the year. So again, it's random. It's a random list. So, like I manage a few companies and I it's in my randomizer and it pulls the people up and then those are the people that you have to do the drug test on and a breath alcohol.

Speaker 2: 41:34

Some people are like I've been with this company for four years, I've never had a random pull list that it's random. And then one guy goes ah there, I said no, I looked at him, I said I pull them. He goes oh, you do, I go. Yeah, I don't the names I said, and it's random, that's why it's random. And so some people will get pulled for urine, Some will get pulled for both. So again, it's just a way it's random because you want to make sure your drivers aren't drinking on the job and you just send them in for a random urine and or breath alcohol.

Speaker 1: 42:05

Speaking of random, I know I just kept getting it every. There are some people usually we, I mean I pulled DTs or quarterly. Okay, yeah, it was almost every week.

Speaker 2: 42:22

I think it was Well, and maybe there was reasonable suspicion, who knows, that's another reason why people can pull. So if you think, I mean we had a case where a guy came and gave us, um, we thought it was um adulterated urine, so the company sent him back and had an observed test done. And when they did that and he gave his own urine, um, he tested positive for marijuana.

Speaker 1: 42:42

so uh, what do you think would be some suspicious behavior? That well can you share that?

Speaker 2: 42:50

well, when people come in and they're very nervous and shaken, you know, and they have bulges in other areas and they walk really funny because they've got things shoved in areas, you know that's a reasonable suspicion. And if the temperature comes out of the urine and it's 120 or it's 70, you know it's not in the right range that's like that.

Speaker 1: 43:09

okay, what about the employer? What would trigger the employer to do more of a just Just from there and again, that's part of now.

Speaker 2: 43:18

With the new marijuana law. There's reasonable suspicion training, so employers need to take that training so they understand what the signs and symptoms are, which is huge. Not every company knows that.

Speaker 1: 43:30

Wow, this is. This is a lot, man. You're like a, a wealth, a bank of information, that uh uh. How do you keep it all straight?

Speaker 2: 43:42

Wow, well, you just keep learning as you go. And again, that's the part with I have a lot of small to medium sized companies cause they don't understand the rules and that's where, like if somebody has an accident or something happens at work and I go like, do you have reasonable suspicion training, they're like, what's that? I go, well, if the new marijuana law in Minnesota, all employers should have that, no matter your DOT or not DOT. So you know what to look for. You know your eyes bloodshot and you're just always two of you to look at that person rather than just going, hey, I think ray's using, I'm going to send him in. No, I want to have somebody else come and say, no, yep, ray, no, he looks fine. No, so really, have those two people see the sign of symptoms?

Speaker 1: 44:17

and you document everything so how come everybody doesn't know about that? I mean, was there a time where it was mandatory? When you get your um, your under your federal motor carrier safety. Was that something that was covered then?

Speaker 2: 44:35

I don't think that's mandatory there. I don't think it is. I just think it's a training that it's good for companies to have. Definitely not mandatory, but I think it's. It helps you as an employer. So you know, I think it's just a CYA, because guess what, if you have that training, you're going to be a much better employer, cause when your drivers come in, I'm sure you guys go in and check in, right, you check in with your employer, hey, hey, how's it going? And if you're just way off your rocker that day they might be going. What's going on?

Speaker 1: 45:05

Yeah, I mean you pull up your USDOT number. There's a company Snapchat, Snapchat Snapchat that shows a lot of your inspections, your out of service average accidents, fatal injury, toe things like that. So those numbers are all recorded there. So it is good to stay on top of it and and to be aware that, hey, this is a potential risk for the company itself. You know the person's behavior or whatnot, so I get it it makes sense again.

Speaker 2: 45:40

Even there's so many records, there's rules and regulations. I think that's just one. That's huge for companies to have to have that training, just to make sure you know what's going on. How do they get?

Speaker 1: 45:49

that training. So we offer it. We offer it online. We have a vendor that training, just to make sure you know what's going on. How do they get that training?

Speaker 2: 45:51

So we offer it. We offer it online. We have a vendor that helps us. If you're interested, you just email us and say how many seats you want 75 bucks a seat and um, I can send a link. It's pretty slick and then you watch it and it's good. It's good basically for life. So you get done and you're one and done.

Speaker 1: 46:10

So a seat, will it be a virtual or is it in person?

Speaker 2: 46:13

It's virtual, yeah, it's virtual, which is huge for companies. Everybody's busy, so they don't have time to go sit in a class.

Speaker 1: 46:19

Insurance companies like it.

Speaker 2: 46:21

Yeah, they do yeah.

Speaker 1: 46:25

So background checks or anything like that, is it more rigorous than the random check? Is it something that's a lot more strenuous? Testing on the what do you call it? The panel.

Speaker 2: 46:39

So again, the background check. We have a vendor that we use for motor vehicle. I'm not sure what DOT companies do. That one I'm not too familiar with. Okay, I'm not sure. If you do that, I know there's MVR one that you can go look at their record. Oh, but speaking of that, hang on, I know where we need to go. You know the FMCSA has their clearing house.

Speaker 1: 46:58

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 46:59

Yeah, that's another whole can of worms.

Speaker 1: 47:01

What do you mean? A can of worms?

Speaker 2: 47:03

So the companies have to be in there and all the employees have to be in there. The employees are in there, and so when you get hired at a new company, they have to run a query on those, okay, before they drive. So you have to run a drug test on them and a FMCSA clearinghouse query before they start driving.

Speaker 1: 47:25

Wow. They want to keep in touch with you and I know you're doing a lot of great things there. The marijuana movement is probably giving you a lot of good work, a lot of good business. But also we hope that individuals are being responsible and also being safe on the road. It is important, it's all out the window. When you see these accidents and things like that. You want to make sure that everybody's being as safe as they can on the road. I mean it just never ends. Looking at the, I get so many feeds in my Instagram, facebook X, all those. There's so much footage out there of accidents. It's a lot.

Speaker 2: 48:09

It is.

Speaker 1: 48:13

Be nice one day when we can really reduce those as much as possible. So, and you're doing a great job of helping out with that. I mean, I think you're doing a great work, um, for the community, for minnesota and also any other testing labs out there that are trying to do their best to be, um, an asset for companies and employees to be compliant and safe. So, yeah, anything that you want the listeners to do to connect with you, or fastest labs, or any advice that you would give to them.

Speaker 2: 48:42

You know, the biggest thing is, if they have questions, call and ask. That's the biggest thing. The more you ask a question, the more you're going to be a better company, because a lot of the owner operators don't know what they're supposed to do. The small to medium sized ones they're, you know they're growing and learning. So, you know, check out. I have three locations Best of Bloomington, chanhassen and Coon Rapids. Those are the three I own. Yeah, we'd happy to help people.

Speaker 1: 49:05

Nice, great locations. So yeah, definitely will be checking you guys out there, put your link up for people to follow and also ask questions. I like how you're open and there's nothing that really is shocking to you.

Speaker 2: 49:22

You're probably seen it all, so yeah, well, cause we do after hours as well and reasonable suspicion. So we get called into accidents and you have to go on site to places that their driver's been using and we have to go do a drug test. So I've been all over the twin cities and outside the twin cities for post-accident or reasonable suspicion or random even too. I've been to hospitals where people have been in an accident. I went past an accident. I'm like I bet that's where I'm going and it was the driver that had been in the accident. Yeah yeah, you never know where you're going to go some days.

Speaker 1: 49:53

You're a busy lady.

Speaker 2: 49:54

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 49:56

Wow, yeah, that's a, that's a. Yeah, I've driven by them and it's, it's um. It's always a sad, sad thing to see, especially for truck drivers. Um, we see all the lights, you see the cranes and I mean it's like man, that's someone's family right there, right, exactly right, yeah All right.

Speaker 1: 50:18

Well, thank you so much, judy, for joining us today. It's been very helpful, very eye opening to a lot of things. I hope I answered a lot of questions that people may have for our listeners so that they, too, can know where to look to and not be afraid to ask for help. I like that. Don't be afraid to go to your testing center and fastest labs. I'm going to recommend them as one of the best resources here in the Twin Cities to help out with staying safe on the road and getting great testing done.

Speaker 1: 50:48

Drug testing is a key part of safety and it's clear that you're doing a critical work. So, to our listeners, thank you. I'm sure they appreciate what you're doing. This episode of that's Delivered will also be put out there for you guys. If you have any questions or concerns, please reach out to us, leave a review. If you have a topic that you want us to discuss for our next show, we'd be more than glad to have you, uh, have you on the show and consider that as a topic of discussion and um, great conversations here on this podcast and uh, really, thank you so much, judy.

Speaker 2: 51:18

you have a great day you too very good, thank you yeah, take care, bye.