Speaker 1: 0:10

Everyone, welcome back to that's Delivered podcast. Today we have an incredible episode. It's an important episode. We're sitting down with Kyla Lenners, a key figure in the Trucking against trafficking, tat, an amazing nonprofit organization working timelessly to combat human trafficking by engaging in key industries and empowering individuals to take action. This is a topic that affects countless lives and TAT is making a huge impact. Kyla, thank you so much for joining us today.

Speaker 2: 0:47

Thank you so much for having us on your show Excellent.

Speaker 1: 0:50

Now for those who aren't familiar with Truckers Against Trafficking. Can you explain the mission of the organization and how it came about?

Speaker 2: 0:58

Sure. So TAT's mission is to educate, equip, empower and mobilize members of key industries and agencies to recognize and report human trafficking, and we started back in 2009. And we started with the commercial trucking industry and then we have branched out to other industries and government agencies. But trucking is always at our core and if you want the backstory of how we got started, I can share that as well.

Speaker 1: 1:29

Yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:31

So it started with my family. Actually, I'm one of the co-founders. My mom had sent my three sisters and I a book called Not For Sale by David Batstone and she wrote us all and said read this book. Now I know nobody on this podcast necessarily knows my mom, but like, when she tells you to do something, you do it. So we all read the book, and it was this overview book Global Domestic Labor, sex Trafficking. And I just know all four of us were just shocked.

Speaker 2: 2:05

We knew that there was injustice in the world, we knew that there were horrible things. We had all individually been fighting against different injustices through our careers, through our volunteer service, but we did not realize slavery still existed until we read that book back in 2007. And so we got on a conference call because we were all over the United States and we were like we've got to do something about it. We can't like, know this and not respond. And so in 2007, we started our first nonprofit organization to combat human trafficking and as part of that, I mean we were all working full-time jobs, but my mom and I here in Oklahoma we helped start the statewide task force coalition against human trafficking. My other sisters were doing other things in their respective states. And then the one sister who was our executive director until just the last couple of years. She and her neighbor put on a huge human trafficking conference and they invited all of the people that had been working on this issue for a long time, both globally and nationally. So we flew up that was October 2008. We flew up with the idea of like divide and conquer go and see as many of these experts speak because we were trying to figure out like what was our piece.

Speaker 2: 3:26

And in one of the sessions that I attended, the guy was talking about his desire to train gas station employees on the science of human trafficking. And like, that just made sense to me. And I went to my mom and she was like you know what she had been reading? Like the FBI national anti trafficking raid information. And she was like you know what she had been reading? Like the FBI national anti-trafficking raid information. And she's like you know what you know, truck drivers would really be the way we should go about this. Truck drivers are everywhere. Her parents, when she was young, had owned a motel in El Paso, texas, and most of their clientele were truck drivers. And she's like most of these guys are good guys. If they knew what was happening, they'd do something about it, and literally from that, we launched TAT in March of 2009, after that conference, and our focus was at that time solely on the trucking industry.

Speaker 1: 4:21

That is so cool. I mean, what a story and a journey in itself. I mean, and I'm so glad that we were able to be a part of that. You know, as a truck driver myself, yeah, and also working for a company that supports it, I mean that's huge. The network that you were able to tap into and use, yeah. The more we get people involved, the better I feel like.

Speaker 2: 4:42

Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 4:46

What was the spark that led to the creation of TAT? Was it just the book, or was there something in particular that happened?

Speaker 2: 4:50

Yeah, no, it was. It was the book. It was just knowing about it. I had been a high school teacher at the time that my mom sent that book and I taught US history and we would always start with, like civil war, the abolitionist movement. And you know when I would, when I would talk to my students, I was like you know, there were abolitionists that like risked their lives, their livelihoods, their reputations, everything. But then there were a bunch of people that just sat around going slavery is bad, right, and they would just drink their tea. And I was like, when you know about an atrocity, do not be a tea drinker. Like you need to kick over that table. So when my mom sent us that book and I read it, I was like I cannot be a tea drinker. Like none of us were like we've got to just kick over this table and get involved. So that really was the spark.

Speaker 1: 5:38

Wow, very nice. That's awesome. Does TAT differentiate itself from anti-trafficking organizations?

Speaker 2: 5:48

I'm sure there's more also was our focus on industry specific, on transportation. At the time that TAT started, nobody was focused on the intersection between transportation and human trafficking, nobody was working industry specific other than us, and so that was a hallmark of our organization was really going a mile wide, but also a mile deep, with the industries coming alongside the industries we work with, not, you know, blaming the industry or shaming the industry, but really saying, hey, this is something that is happening, how can we work together to combat it, like as allies and as partners in this fight. And I will tell you the reason why TAT has been able to grow and scale and include other industries and other sectors is because of how the trucking industry responded. The trucking industry said, yes, this is our fight, we will do the right thing. Individual truckers, companies, cdl schools they just were like not on our watch.

Speaker 2: 7:06

Basically, and because of the example of the American trucking industry, others have joined, whether it's the bus industry, motor coach, transit, school transportation. The Canadian trucking industry is looking at it. Based on the US example, we work with the energy industry. They came to us because of the trucking intersect and then wanted more materials for their whole industry. Again, the example of the American trucking industry really joining in and combating this and taking this on as their fight. That has been the inspiration for so many others.

Speaker 1: 7:43

Wow, that's awesome. I can't thank you guys enough. I mean, it looks like that's also in your logo. Yeah, you're making that intersection.

Speaker 2: 7:53

Yes, absolutely yeah. I like the logo.

Speaker 1: 7:56

Yeah, that's awesome. Can you explain the scope of human trafficking in the U? S and or maybe even globally, why these organizations like TAT have to come in and help out what's going on?

Speaker 2: 8:15

Yeah. So when we look at human trafficking globally and these stats are from the International Labor Organization there are 50 million people enslaved worldwide. Now that is predominantly labor trafficking. Then you have sex trafficking, organ trafficking, where they're taking people, harvesting their organs and then selling those organs on the black market to the highest bidder. And you also have child soldiers. So you know, in countries that have wars going on that don't have popular support, the armies as they get depleted, they go into villages and kidnap children and conscript them into these armies and force them to do horrible, horrible things. So that 50 million really makes up all of that number. It's $150 billion annual industry. So there's money to be made.

Speaker 2: 9:06

Selfishness, greed, is absolutely the motivator. Whether it is that small business owner that recognizes she can make more money on her t-shirts if she doesn't pay her garment workers, or it's that street level pimp that's running two or three girls, very low overhead, very high profit margin. Or it's that street level pimp that's running two or three girls, very low overhead, very high profit margin. Or it's that big transnational crime organization that's running drugs, guns and people. They're going to where the money is.

Speaker 2: 9:34

And then when you look at the US, you're looking at thousands upon thousands of people that are being exploited on an annual basis, and that's girls, boys, men and women in sex and labor trafficking. More and more states are starting to actually look at their own numbers. Texas, several years ago, did a study where they were looking at how many trafficking victims do we have in our state at any one time and they came up with 300,000 a year. Now those were at varying intervals. Some people might have only been trafficked for a short time and been able to escape, and by that I mean like a week or a month, other people in it long term that they literally cannot get away, but all very exploitative pieces. So we don't have like the number for just the US.

Speaker 2: 10:25

But I think you can take from that study out of Texas, take from other studies that other states have done and sort of been like okay, at any given time we have exploitative practices, traffickers that are taking advantage of people in transit, taking advantage of people with prior abuse, taking advantage of people that are in desperate ways, like you think about in with all these fires right now in California.

Speaker 2: 10:51

There are going to be some people that have no problem rebuilding, right, they have money, they have access, they have insurance, they can pay. But then you think about a lot of people that not only lost their homes, but they lost their livelihood because their job burned down as well and they don't have insurance and they don't have money in the bank to pay. These types of natural disasters are another place where traffickers come in and out of desperation. They promise that job, they promise this opportunity, they promise they're going to take care of somebody. They promise this opportunity, they promise they're going to take care of somebody. You see that with earthquakes, with floods, with hurricanes, all across the world, but also within the United States.

Speaker 1: 11:47

It is that desperate situation that they're taking advantage of, and so it is this constant flow of people in a vulnerable position and people, instead of helping, taking advantage of that vulnerable position. Yeah, that's really sad, wow. I mean, you know, you go to places where people need help and you think about helping, but they're coming in and they're thinking about how they can take advantage of individuals Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 12:01

So you've seen some of this firsthand, or you've been able to see surveys, or I mean over the years. How much involvement have you seen firsthand, both labor and sex trafficking. Basically, since we were a very young organization hiring them as full-time employees on consulting work to speak with us, they've been some of our greatest teachers, because a lot of survivors, once they're out of the life, they actually do the really hard work of being on the streets where it's happening to recover other people, right, because, like they might look at me and be like you don't understand my life, like how are you? You can't understand me and they might not, you know, listen to what I have to say, but you put a survivor that lived that same experience in front of them. They can speak that language. Do you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2: 13:01

And so that being able to work with them, talk with them, understand from their perspective how many people are being trafficked and exploited and hurt, that's significant. And I would also say you know, when you look at the studies on prostitution in the country but also around the world, you're looking at close to 98% of people being prostituted are there against their will, 98%. So the common term you know with you know in the trucking industry the use of the term lot lizard or, in broader society, hooker, slut, whore, whatever you're talking about people that are actually there through a third party trafficking them or through lack of other viable options, like 98%. And yeah, they can be extremely rough around the edges and they can look a certain way or have a substance dependency and things of that nature, but it doesn't take away from the fact that they are there through extreme trauma, through force, fraud or coercion and they need help.

Speaker 1: 14:10

Right, right, man, wow, man, that really puts things in perspective and you guys are getting those optics for us to understand and get involved. I appreciate that you know. When it looks at the industry and the impact on human trafficking, your website highlights some key industries that are deeply impacted by human trafficking, such as transportation, energy and manufacturing. Can you explain why these industries are so significant in the fight against truck trafficking?

Speaker 2: 14:43

Yeah, I would tell you that all of the industries that we work with transportation, starting with transportation, you guys are in places that other people aren't right and there's more truck drivers just taking, just trucking. There's more truck drivers on the road at any given time than there are law enforcement officers. And you're already trained to be vigilant through your jobs and you're going into places that traffickers are sending their victims into as well, right? So these are places that they're either stopping to let their victims use the bathroom, grab a drink, fuel up gas, right, so you're there. Maybe they're not being exploited in that moment but, like you see something, they're taking them to truck stops, rest areas, hotels, motels, strip clubs that are around those intersections, those illicit massage businesses that are around those intersections, and they're trafficking them there, right? And so, again, you're at these locations where you're going to have the possibility to both recognize the crime for what it is and then report it to law enforcement so that they can do something about it.

Speaker 2: 15:50

When you think of, like the bus industry, motor coach or transit, when you look at the studies that survivors have participated in, they all say I mean it's significant percentages 60, 70% were trafficked, were recruited at bus stations that their traffickers moved them on transit lines and through motor coach Runaways.

Speaker 2: 16:14

They might not have their own car, they don't have money for an air ticket, but what do they take? They take a bus out of the city, right, and oftentimes they're going to meet a friend or a boyfriend or get a job through that they met online. That's a trafficker. Possibly, right, that's somebody that's going to use them and hurt them. And so training the bus drivers, training terminal workers to recognize those things again massive potential for prevention of trafficking and exploitation, massive potential for intervening and getting somebody away from their trafficker. And we have cases of both truck drivers and bus terminal workers and truck stop operators that have seen stuff and have had the courage to make a call and they have recovered victims of trafficking and traffickers have been arrested and prosecuted and sentenced because of those calls from the transportation industry.

Speaker 1: 17:12

That's the action right there. That's when the magic happens, right.

Speaker 2: 17:16

Absolutely, it's beautiful. It's beautiful Wow.

Speaker 1: 17:20

What challenges does trucking have or any other industries have, identifying and addressing trafficking, what you know, just not knowing, or what would you say?

Speaker 2: 17:31

I think not knowing is part of it. I think the same challenges that the trucking industry and others would have would be the same as anybody else in society. A lot of the times the victims look like criminals. I train law enforcement on this crime and you know what they're encountering when they go to help a victim. The victim's like more liable to spit in their face and cuss them out right, like, leave me alone, I want to be doing this, I'm independent, blah, blah, blah. When that's not the case at all, right. So I think what's difficult is oftentimes looking at somebody that has an addiction right, that is older, that is like baby, that's just what I do, don't even worry, I've been out here for 20 years, you know whatever and saying, well, that's different from a trafficking victim, when in fact it could be one in the same right. So I think that that's that's just a challenge. I also think a challenge for both professional drivers as well as anybody is we don't want to be wrong, right, like you don't want to make a call and then it's like and then the cops come out and it's like you were wrong and it's embarrassing and you feel weird and it's just like it's the sort of like nerves that you have to overcome, but we always say like yeah, you could be wrong and that's OK to be wrong, but what if you're right? Like what if you're right and you miss this opportunity and someone has to endure this life so much longer?

Speaker 2: 19:07

One of the really cool cases that we've had and we've shared for a number of years is the Kevin Kimmel case. He pulled his truck into a truck stop outside Richmond, virginia, in January 2015. He was finishing up his paperwork you know it's going to be on hours of service, all of that stuff and he noticed this RV parked out back by the trucks and it was a little bit beat up. He was like it was weird that it was back out by the commercial vehicles instead of up by the store. And he just he was watching it and he had this weird feeling. But he just he was like I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. And he said another truck actually pulled in and blocked his view. He tapped on their windows, said hey, can you watch that RV? I think something's up. They just were like no man, shut close their blinds and, you know, crashed.

Speaker 2: 19:56

He got out of his truck Like that was the part he was like. He still was too scared to make the call because he wasn't sure. But he got out of his truck and finished his paperwork outside of the truck, watching the RV so he could still see it. He saw a man come out to the RV, knock on the door, be allowed to enter. At some point he saw a young woman look out the RV. She got yanked back and the curtain was closed. And that's when he had the courage to call the cops.

Speaker 2: 20:24

That woman was a 20 year old who had been taken by family friends. She knew them out of Iowa 18 days prior. They had beaten her, raped her, tortured her in ways that I'm not going to share on here, but I mean the stuff of nightmares. Then they were selling her for sex through ads that they were posting on Craigslist. So men were buying this adult woman she must want to be there Right and then coming to that RV to rape her. And a doctor said that had Kevin not made that call, she would have died within the next couple of days due to the malnutrition and the torture that she had suffered.

Speaker 2: 21:04

So whenever you know, I have people that think well gosh, what if I'm wrong, kevin said I thought what if I'm wrong? I might be upsetting a family on vacation or whatever? And then what he did was he was like you know what, maybe I upset them for 15 minutes. Cops, come, it's nothing, they leave. And I've upset their vacation for 15 minutes. Butops, come, it's nothing, they leave, and I've upset their vacation for 15 minutes. But he was right and he literally, literally saved her life and those two traffickers Laura Sorenson it was a man and a woman Laura Sorenson and Eldar Hadza got 40 and 41 years respectively in prison for what they did to her.

Speaker 1: 21:44

Wow, what a successful story from tragedy From man. You know that's you think about. We get these cards I think it's TAC cards and they help educate, like business card size and we get those and we hand those out to drivers and you're like, well, what do we do now? Or we get those and we hand those out to drivers and you're like, well, what do we do now?

Speaker 1: 22:07

or we'll get the sticker on the window so that on the driver's side, but it's like, well, what do we do now? And the education that we can get from you guys is huge, and the courage that we can have to what's right, the fortitude to stand up for those individuals that can't speak for themselves, it's huge. So I like that you're on the show and we can hear these stories and hear these things and motivate us to do more. Like you said, you're always afraid and I'm not a police officer or trained in social work to identify this, so what do you?

Speaker 1: 22:44

do Some things are blatant obviously, but then there's some things that aren't like, say, could have ruined their vacation. But yeah, better be safe than sorry.

Speaker 2: 22:52

Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 22:54

And that resonates too with a truck driver because we have an unsafe load, it's better to be safe, go ahead and go shop and get it taken care of versus uh, man, I'm sorry, nobody cares then, because, uh, something, man, wow, thank you. Um, and also, what role does you know corporate, what is their responsibility in playing? And uh, combating traffic trafficking in the industry? You know people that aren't even on the road.

Speaker 2: 23:24

Yeah, I think with corporate, whether they are the executives at a large trucking company or, you know, sales, hr, whoever they are within I think number one, mandating the training within their company, making it part of orientation. We are working on micro learnings that are sort of like that 201 level that drivers can take. So, like, if you've already seen the OTR video once, twice, three times, like, have new information. We just came out with a corporate video to train everybody in, say, your large trucking company or mid-sized trucking company, but also show that to your drivers. If your drivers have already seen their training video, this is another really good reminder and how it connects back in their non-professional lives, in their personal lives, like when they're at a bar, when they're at a restaurant, when they're at a hotel for vacation right, that they're keeping their eyes open.

Speaker 2: 24:29

I think corporate can also really take this seriously and institute an anti-trafficking in-persons policy within the employee handbook that basically explicitly says because you know, I mean obviously we assume, well, of course we wouldn't want you to.

Speaker 2: 24:44

Because you know, I mean obviously we assume, well, of course we wouldn't want you to do that, you know, participate in anything like that while you're working. But most don't actually have a firm policy, but basically putting in a policy that says you cannot use company time or company resources to purchase commercial sex, right, and if you do, there's consequences for it. So like you're not doing that and again that I think that communicates to all employees we're taking this seriously, we mean what we say and it's not just sort of like oh, what we did in January one year, but like this is just something that they want to continue to do. They can continue to corporate can help fundAT keep our mobile exhibit on the road, because that is constantly educating the masses and the populace and also showing the general public how the trucking and other industries that TAT works with are combating human trafficking and how they can play a role as well.

Speaker 1: 25:45

Nice. I think that's key. It's one thing to try to do things from the ground up or the bottom up, but when it trickles down from management, corporate and creating those trainings, seminars or even a video that they can watch, it's going to help in a huge way. In a huge way Knowing that your company is back in it. You look at your website and you look at all the individuals that are supporting you guys, you know, but it's great to stand up and put your logo there, but what are you doing after that? And I like that. That's a great message. I hope many companies continue to do more. I hope it doesn't get pushed by the wayside, because a lot of companies get busy. They're trying to stay in business, you know, in a recession, but use those slow times to regain momentum Right when you slow down. Yeah, that's huge. So it looks like you guys received a lot of awards, notable awards, for your work. Can you tell us about those awards and how they signify the organization's impact?

Speaker 2: 26:54

Yeah, so TAT has been lucky to have received awards from different entities. I think our very first award we got was from an anti-trafficking survivor-led organization, which was really exciting to get that they were recognizing TAP for our innovative demand reduction, which is basically you think about it as a professional driver, if you knew and I mean I used to go to Gatsby before that show closed down. I go to Matt's right Like talking to truck drivers when they know that the person, that the people out there are there against their will you're less likely to purchase a sex act, right, versus when you think, oh well, it's innocent, victimless, crime type of a thing. And so, just in educating the populace, there was a decrease for demand for commercial sex because people started to realize oh my gosh, like I'm hurting somebody. I can't tell you how many times over the years I had truck drivers come up and big old guys like start to cry because they had paid for a sex act at some time during their career, not realizing. And then they had watched the training video and they were like it was, like it was eye opening for them and you know, and I would always just say now you know, and now you do better, right, like now. You know, and you spread that word with other truck drivers, like the past is done. Now, from this point on that, you know where do we go from here, right, and then you become that crusader, you become that tat and action out there that's making that call, that's standing up for and not tolerating a culture that says it's okay to purchase people, right, because it's not. And doing that, and so I think that was an exciting one.

Speaker 2: 29:00

We just won the USDOT Award for Innovations in Combating Human Trafficking for our Youth on Transportation initiative. A lot of school districts around the country do not. They're having a hard time finding school bus drivers, and so what they're having to do is purchase bus vouchers for transit buses, city buses, and the kids are having to get on city buses to get to and from school. Well, they're on those city buses with everybody else, right? So it increases their risk. And so our Youth on Transportation initiative is really. We did focus groups with youth across the country, like what kind of colors, what kind of messaging, what would they actually pay attention to? And so we created these little short, one minute videos with you talking about situations, qr codes, where they could, like, get involved themselves and educate themselves on the issue as a safety protection and really trying to work this year with that USDOT award to get to transit across this country that have youth traveling on their transit systems, educating them, training them, giving them protocols for what they could do if they do see something or a youth at risk, and so that's really cool.

Speaker 2: 30:25

We've won awards from the industry themselves. I think those those for us at TAT, are the most exciting versus. You know, we have gotten acknowledgement from Congress people. We have gotten acknowledgement from other anti-trafficking. We got one from attorneys like the Association for Attorneys General. I think all of those they're all an honor, they're all a privilege, they all help Tats Message get out there that much more. But I'll tell you, when we win one from the industry, that's when you know that we're part of you guys. Right, and that means the most. And I can say that as a co-founder, you know whether my mom or my other sisters, like those are the ones where we're just like yay, because it's the trucking industry saying we honor this, we honor you, you're part of us, and that's always, that was always the goal, like we want to be a part of the industry.

Speaker 1: 31:32

Nice, I totally get that Having that connection. I think it's humans. We value that connection. Even from a young age you know you want friends and then you know you feel accepted.

Speaker 1: 31:47

That never goes away, so building those connections, connections a lot of reasons why I I love the podcast. I can have that connection with industry leaders, um experts and those that are also like myself that are drivers, and we can build that community together. Also part of the trucking industry. You're like family, uh, once you're, once you're in the trucking industry, you're like family. Once you're in with trucking, you look out for each other and you see each other out there trying to get the job done and if we can keep that positive energy going, that's huge. And I love how excited you got when you get these awards.

Speaker 1: 32:26

That's going to stick with me for a while too, because it's those motivations that keep us going. With the passion, the love for something, it's going to make it better. You're not doing it because you have to. You're doing it because you want to and you love what you do. I can see that.

Speaker 1: 32:41

Yeah, and let's see here. So for future goals, looking ahead, what are some of TAT's future goals? How do you plan to expand? I know you say you're working on some things right now. How do you plan to expand your impact and continue to fight against trafficking?

Speaker 2: 33:00

Yeah, well, I would say that with the industries that we currently work with, we still have not reached 100% saturation currently work with, we still have not reached 100% saturation. So definitely continuing on with the trucking industry, with also thinking about local drivers, right, whether those are local delivery drivers, or you think about the Amazons, fedexes that are in people's neighborhoods, the final mile drivers, or people stocking the grocery stores, even like ride share USPS, like there's a play there because there's so much trafficking happening in people's neighborhoods, in residential areas as well as in, like the little strip mall businesses near neighborhoods and stuff, and so like, if everybody is trained on those signs, a lot of the familial trafficking definitely happens in people's homes which are in people's neighborhoods, and if we were trained on that we could really do more. And so I think, really focusing on the industry sectors that we work with movers in home delivery, local drivers, continuing with the commercial vehicle drivers, buses, transit, really with our youth on transportation, school transportation, really sort of doubling down. And now that we have just released, as of last week, our corporate video, really going back to all of the partners that we have and say now train everybody else, right, because again, the eyes and ears. For years they've asked us. You know, we've trained our drivers. We've trained our drivers what more? And we've just never had anything. For the rest of the people within our partners, companies, right, and now we do. So I think this is the year of really deepening those relationships, really expanding the reach and getting more and more people to understand they do also have a role to play.

Speaker 2: 35:03

I always say trafficking is an everywhere problem, so it is an everybody solution, and there are more of us people than there are traffickers and like if we would all just know what the signs are, we could crush them. We want to cripple their networks. We want to cripple their ability to move across this country. We want to cripple their ability to continue to exploit locations where we're at, as well as the people that are suffering and churned up in these systems of exploitation. We want to set the captives free, right. We want to see change take place, and that means everybody needs to start seeing this stuff. And again, I think that's really the big focus is just deepening those relationships over the next few years, expanding the reach.

Speaker 2: 35:54

We do have an app, by the way, that is new as of last year, free on Android or Apple phones to download. It connects you with all those indicators that are on the wallet card, but so many more. We also have a whole list of indicators for labor trafficking as well as sex trafficking. It connects you to all of our different trainings. You can tailor the experience on the app. So if I'm an over-the-road driver, I can get just that information. If I am a local driver, I can just get that information. If I'm a school transportation driver, I can just get that information. So you can really tailor that experience. So the app is a really great resource for drivers, just to download, to have that right at their fingertips.

Speaker 2: 36:42

And if they happen to be like in I don't know Ohio, ohio has a state hotline that is primed, ready to action. So like if you're in ohio and you see something, our app will connect you to the ohio hotline and you will have an immediate response to a call, right. Or if you're in another area, we're gonna say call 9-1-1 here, call this one here, and it all of that's right there. And then if you do happen to talk to somebody that's being exploited and you're just in a conversation and it comes out, you can go state by state and find service providers for them that you can connect them with. So say, you're in Texas and you've got somebody that you're having a conversation with and then you're like, oh my gosh, I think they're being trafficked. You can go on the app, click on service providers, click on Texas and you're going to get a whole list of vetted service providers that could help that individual that you're talking to.

Speaker 1: 37:41

That's amazing, right in the palm of your hand.

Speaker 2: 37:43

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:44

I was just going to go into that. Your website is very, very nice to look at, Easy to understand. Now there's an app. I mean that's huge. It's going to be great and you know we can highlight those failures, but you can also celebrate those success stories of individuals taking it serious or companies that, like you said, are doing the work to build and educate a network and a community that is aware and knows what to do.

Speaker 2: 38:13

Right.

Speaker 1: 38:14

That's huge. Thank you so much. Yeah, um, man cause, uh, can you share, like, maybe, uh, uh success story from within the office area? Maybe, um, like you said, those local drivers within the office area? Maybe, um, like you said, those local drivers I know, uh, the beverage community. They go in places that most people don't don't go, you know, you get to see the kitchen, you get to go down these long hallways to make the delivery Um, I mean, it's huge to beer guy, the food guy, you know. So, connecting with those local drivers, do you have a success story that you can highlight that shows, hey, this is something we can do to engage these local drivers a tat story particularly, but I will say we do have some examples of the efficacy of this.

Speaker 2: 39:17

So there was a United States Postal Service operator. He was delivering mail. He noticed a young woman that seemed distressed. He asked her if she was okay. She just sort of like yeah, yeah, yeah, but was crying. He goes and delivers the mail up you know the next couple of houses, comes back, sees her again, sits down next to her and he's like tell me what's going on. She had literally just jumped out of a car, escaped through a back alley and come around there from a trafficker, from her trafficker, and he had taken her phone, all of that stuff. So like she couldn't call. So that guy helped connect her to her mom. Her mom was like please, we're calling the cops, stay there with her until the cops come. The USPS officer stayed with her and made sure that she was safe.

Speaker 2: 40:00

Before that we also just had two waste management guys that are, you know, taking your trash. They're obviously all in these neighborhoods, you know, taking your trash. They're obviously all in these neighborhoods. They see a young woman fall out of a car. She was trying to get away. She runs over to them, gets in their truck and a guy gets out of that car trying to get her out, and those two waste management guys immediately jumped into action, protected her, blocked him from getting to her, called cops, waited with her and like total bodyguard. And that car took off when they heard the sirens and like, got her to safety.

Speaker 2: 40:39

And so, again, it's the right place at the right time and being trained on whoa, this is a potential situation. It's not just somebody's upset. Maybe their boyfriend broke up with them. But hey, let me ask a few more questions, right, because you could write off some of these types of things. There was a Uber driver that a guy and two guys and a girl got into his car. They were driving, he was driving to this location and they were telling her you're going to do this, you're going to do that, and he's like overhearing the conversation and he's like I think this is human trafficking. He drops them off, calls cops, tells what he heard and where he just dropped them off to. She was a minor that was being sex trafficked and they were able to arrest both those traffickers and get that girl to safety.

Speaker 1: 41:36

Yeah, that's the stories that we need to hear. Yeah, thank you. Wow, you know you think about those individuals. I get it, it's their, it's their life. Yeah, you know stories, really, you're not going to forget that. Yeah, you can, you can get the card or you can see the sticker or or what have you. But hearing those stories, thank you for sharing I appreciate that. So I read about the freedom drivers project, which sounds fascinating. How can you, can you explain how it helps raise awareness and trafficking?

Speaker 2: 42:16

So our Freedom Drivers Project is our first mobile exhibit. We're actually working on our second one right now, which is exciting. It'll be the Driving Change Project, but the FDP, as we call the Freedom Drivers Project, it's a mobile exhibit. But the FDP, as we call the Freedom Drivers Project, it's a mobile exhibit. It's a 48-foot trailer that inside it's like a museum experience.

Speaker 2: 42:35

You go inside the trailer and you watch a really short video that just sort of gives the scope of human trafficking. And then throughout the exhibit we have received from survivors of trafficking artifacts from the time that they were exploited, whether it was a pair of shoes that they wore when they were being trafficked, or a sweater or lipstick, or one had a med sex trafficking that actually happens at legal brothels as well A medallion from her experience, her bed number that she was assigned at that brothel, and really it gives like a little snippet of each one of their stories and it sort of shows the push and pull factors into human trafficking. And then as you make your way around the exhibit, you see how TAD is working with the industries that we do, how they are making an impact in people's lives, and then you leave with sort of this idea of how you personally whoever's in the trailer can make a difference in their own communities, within their own families and within their workplaces.

Speaker 1: 43:50

Yeah, that's huge. Think about, when you see something, you can associate it with something else. A picture says a thousand words and all that, oh man. So showing those objects of things that people wouldn't normally see or understand what it is, so that's huge, yeah, are there any upcoming events where people can experience this firsthand?

Speaker 2: 44:14

Well, we were just in Texas, last week in Houston, and the FDP will be in Georgia for a private event with UPS this coming week. But if you go on our website, tatnonprofitorg, and you go under some of the initiatives like it'll be under who we work with right and you go under that tab, you'll find the Freedom Drivers Project that will have an ongoing list of where the exhibit's going to be. And then I would also say that if you sign up for our newsletter, we have the entire month's events of everywhere that TAT's going to be, including the Freedom Drivers Project, listed on every newsletter that comes out on the first of every month. And you can sign that up just by sending us an email at info at TAT, at nonprofitorg, and say sign me up for your newsletter and then we'll send it to you electronically every month.

Speaker 1: 45:10

Nice. Maybe I can get the link and put that also on the notes of the show as well. I mean, that's great the book Not For Sale, that's still available for people to read as well.

Speaker 2: 45:23

Yes, and there's a ton of really great books about human trafficking. That's what got us started was Not For Sale. There's one called In Our Backyard that follows the same pattern as Not For Sale and is a little bit more updated Different author, nita Bells, on that one. But yeah, there's good literature I would be remiss to not say. If you want to really understand labor trafficking, sex trafficking, from the viewpoint of somebody that lived it, there is a huge library of survivor written books that truly are. They give you an insight that nobody else is going to be able to right.

Speaker 2: 46:07

Like it's good to have the facts, it's good to have some of these bigger overviews, but when you have a survivor sort of sharing this was my day in, day out. This is how I was treated by law enforcement. This is how I was treated by buyers. This is how I was treated by random people in society who looked at me like I was just a just a quote, unquote prostitute, right. This is how I was treated and I felt helpless and hopeless and I didn't know how I could get out Right. And then when they talk about in those books this person that was kind to them, this person that noticed them and gave them a bottle of water. This person that asked them if they were okay stuff that you and I would take for granted. Like we get that all day, every day, right, but like for them to be treated like objects and animals most of the time. To have somebody actually show some level of care and concerned, it matters hugely yeah, yeah, pulling at strings in my heart.

Speaker 1: 47:10

There that's um, yeah, that's stuff. I like, you know, I like to be a part of that network. Um, I've seen too many people, and you know, helping them out and in a time where you don't really know the situation right you never know how far that goes, treating people like human versus just passing them by yeah, pass, pass by a lot of people driving truck. So thank you for helping me remember that. I think what stood out to me was movies. You know, I'm not yeah.

Speaker 1: 47:40

I used to watch a lot of movies. My wife she likes lifetime. Yeah, Wow, we used to watch a lot of those movies. But taken, that was that resonated with me.

Speaker 2: 47:51

Liam Nielsen, you know.

Speaker 1: 47:53

I was like man, a father, you know, but that's more not realistic how it happens, but, yeah, the idea, you know so, but hearing the real stories that you can share, I appreciate that. Thank you so much. Your organization is doing a huge effort, a heavy lift from, from, you know, the private sector. It's not something that we wish the government would do more. We always wish that things could change, but we, you know, we keep taking those small steps in the right direction and you guys are doing that, taking the bull by the horns.

Speaker 2: 48:31

Yeah well, we couldn't do it without our industry partners. That is just truth.

Speaker 1: 48:37

Yeah, so.

Speaker 2: 48:40

UPS is a huge contributor.

Speaker 1: 48:42

I mean that's great. Yeah, I'm a teamster myself.

Speaker 2: 48:45

Oh okay. Hello, I'm a Teamster myself, oh okay.

Speaker 1: 48:49

Hello, working with UPS is huge so there are ways that local organizations and communities can bring the project also help connect that web. Are there any local organizations that you know of, maybe?

Speaker 2: 49:12

and people can get involved in their community. Like you mentioned.

Speaker 1: 49:15

Georgia. I'm in Minnesota. What can they do?

Speaker 2: 49:35

Yeah. So what I would say is there's a number of different starting points. One if you download our app, like I said, you can go on the service provider list and then you can find vetted service providers and by vetted I mean we had survivors on our staff call each one of those and ask them a series of questions who they help? You know it's all up to date information, but, like you could plug in Minnesota and you'd get a list of vetted service providers and then you could contact any of them. Do they need volunteers? Do they need donations? Do they need a clothing drive? Do they need this or that? Right, and they'll give you ways to get involved at that local level. If you don't want to go direct service provider route, don't want to go direct service provider route. Every state has at least one anti-trafficking task force. Some have multiple in different regions of their state. I know, like South Carolina has a number of regional, like they've broken up the whole state, they've got all these regional ones and then the regional task forces meet together with the attorney's general office. But, like again, those task forces are going to know how trafficking is playing out in their particular region of your state. They'd be able to point you in the right direction of what's needed, where the help is required, and they could really point you in the right directions. Also, if, like you, wanted to go and get a local speaker to give a local flavor about what's happening in your area, those task forces oftentimes have a speaker speakers bureau so that they could come out and maybe speak to your local group provides training videos as well as in this corporate video. Like I said, I think that it's really generalized enough to like be applicable to most people. But we also can speak if it is related to one of the sectors that we work with. Right, if you've got school transportation, we can come out and talk about that. We can really give you the information and the materials specific to that. So I think there's a lot of different starting points within a particular state, but then on a general, maybe you don't want to mess with the task force and you don't want to mess with like an actual service provider, or maybe you do that route, but there's nothing right in your area.

Speaker 2: 51:48

Here's what I would tell you. Traffickers seek to exploit vulnerabilities. So what every single last one of us can do within our own communities is help to minimize vulnerabilities. What is a major vulnerability? Food insecurity here's what you can do. Donate to your local food bank. Food insecurity here's what you can do. Donate to your local food bank. We all have them in our communities, right? Whether it's a private nonprofit, whether it's the state-led one. You can donate to your food pantry, your local food pantry, because, as you eliminate food insecurity for families, that is less of a foothold for a trafficker to be able to get into right. Well, I can help feed you. Well, I can provide you for this right Now, the good guys are supplying it versus the traffickers supplying it.

Speaker 2: 52:35

I would also say are you somebody that knows how to write resumes really well?

Speaker 2: 52:41

You do interviews really well?

Speaker 2: 52:43

Maybe volunteer your time with youth to teach them how to do that.

Speaker 2: 52:50

Volunteer your time with youth to teach them how to do that. If you've got schools that have at risk students that struggle with reading, volunteer to be a reading buddy. Again, school performance is also a vulnerability, so, like, if they're hurting at school and they're struggling at school, there's more of an opportunity for bad influences to get in there that could lead them into a life of all sorts of different types of exploitation. So you stepping in and helping to bridge that gap, help them to achieve those skills. And attain those skills, you are minimizing their vulnerability to a trafficker. So you think about it, what you see in your oh gosh, we have a large unhoused population or homeless population.

Speaker 2: 53:33

Get with the group. What do you guys need? Do you need blankets? I can help make blankets, right. Oh, you need this, I can do that kind of a drive. Oh, you need toiletries, I'll do a toiletry drive right. Whatever it is that's going to meet the needs in your specific community that makes it that much harder for a trafficker to operate. And I don't know about you, but I want to thwart traffickers and exploiters every which way I can. These are simple ways.

Speaker 1: 54:00

You're awesome. You're a soldier, that's awesome. I guess this is a side question. Is there any particular state that seems to be more vulnerable?

Speaker 2: 54:13

Yeah, I would say, you know the numbers can be like it's like it's a bit of a double edged sword. So they look at trafficking cases across in each state and then they always say here's the top five states for trafficking, and so those states tend to get a black eye. But what I would tell you is and I'm going to tell you the five states these five states also have some of the best anti-trafficking training and education, which is why I think they have higher trafficking case numbers because people are recognizing it, reporting it, cops are investigating it, prosecutors are prosecuting it. So it's sort of like it's a double-edged sword.

Speaker 2: 54:55

Florida, texas, new York, california, ohio those are consistently in your top five. They also have some of the best anti-trafficking movement. Wow, yeah, I would tell you states that have a high population of the indigenous population, high rates of poverty, high rates of incarcerated people. So, like Oklahoma, my home state is a state that has a lot of those same intersections. Right, it's a state where it's like sort of a traffickers playground, if you will. I think again, where you're looking at, where you have higher levels of vulnerability you have higher levels of exploiters coming in to take advantage of that.

Speaker 1: 55:49

Yeah, real talk. I appreciate that. You know. You go online, you look at social media and like what is this something stage? Is this real? Like what am I seeing Hearing from you on the ground, knowing that this stuff is real and that there's a real problem we need to fix?

Speaker 2: 56:03

Yeah, of course. Can I say one thing? I do want to say this because, no matter what audience I go to, you bring up social media and that just like sort of triggers me back to saying this person taking pictures of your kids at the local Walmart or Piggly, wiggly or whatever, or the smear or zip ties on your car, the mark on your tire. There's actually no cases that have originated from trafficking for any of those things. These are social media viral, hyped up things. Let me be very clear.

Speaker 2: 56:49

There are cases where traffickers kidnap someone that they don't know and force them into a trafficking situation, but more times than not, the trafficking victim knows their trafficker before they are trafficked. Let me say that again they are known. It is a family member, it is a coworker, it is a boyfriend or girlfriend, it is a person that you're talking to online, it is a coach or a teacher. It is a known entity in your life before you are trafficked, entity in your life before you are trafficked more times than not. So, yes, I think it's always important to be vigilant. You know, if you see something or you see something weird on your car and you're unsure, yeah, go get a security guard, but I wouldn't say that. That's typically how traffickers operate. Again, we're talking about those vulnerabilities. They're going to be your friend, right? They're going to be somebody in your life that you have some type of a relationship with, because most traffickers use the relationship to control you.

Speaker 1: 58:01

Absolutely. Wow, thank you. I kind of figured that my senses went off on that that, hey, this is someone taking advantage of a situation. I watch it. Yeah, you know, I'm a I'm a daughter dad, yeah, and I'm like, all right, this is somebody getting girls worried about something, so it likes or views. And I was like, man, I don't like that. Yeah, oh, you know, I go have a conversation with my daughter and try to educate her on that and she already watched, she already seen the video before I got to talk to her, right, you know, I'm like, hey, yeah, I got. Now I gotta gotta kind of reprogram your mind because you know they're getting you to look to your left, yeah, from your right right coming at you, and I don't like that yeah, I don't either, yeah so thank you for making that very clear.

Speaker 1: 58:49

Sure Appreciate that so, man. You've given us so much information. I hope our listeners are going to be able to take this in and play it again If they need to hear it. It's going to be out there and we'll make sure all of our listeners are able to hear this conversation. It is an eye-opener. I thank you so much for the incredible work that you're doing. I champion you and I really want to get behind you and support anything you guys are doing. That's huge. So I'm going to do my part make this show accessible for many. It's a great work that you're doing to combat human trafficking. Like you say, you want to crush them and just make their job so difficult that they what's the point of doing this now? Right, so empowering the industries to take a stand, not just highlighting their failures, but helping them to be successful, to be champions, just like yourself. Before we wrap it up, is there anything else you'd like to share with the listeners? You have the floor.

Speaker 2: 59:53

No, basically just keep doing what you're doing and if you see something, please do say something, because when you make that call you could be saving life. And I love all the tats out there. I thank you guys so much for just the work you do on a daily basis keeping our country going, but for also being a TAT. You have my heart.

Speaker 1: 1:00:12

Nice, nicely said. Thank you so much for joining us today and to our listeners. If you're inspired by the action and want to learn more about TAT and the work that they're doing, be sure to visit their website. That's tatnonprofitorg, that's T-A-T-N-O-N-P-R-O-F-I-Torg. Together, we can make a difference, and I'll make sure I put the links in the notes for the show to make sure that everyone can read about and learn about what they can do. Get that newsletter right. Stay informed in your area. Use the app I think there's a lot we can do.

Speaker 1: 1:00:44

Use the app. I think there's a lot we can do, and once we start doing more of it, it'll become second nature. It won't be something that we have to learn, because time is important. Like you said, in those instances that it happens, time is of essence. So I thank you so much for coming on the show. You did it very promptly. Answer it back, man. That's huge. So thank you again. If this episode resonates with you, please share with your network. Spread the word, let this awareness and support continue. Fight against human trafficking. Don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, join us for next time on the show and any other important conversations We'd love to have you guys on. So thank you for listening. Again, this is your go-to guy Truckin' Ray, and that's Delivered.